The Truth About Aging on a Bike: Dr. Stacey Brickson Explains

once you hit the magic number of 40, it's my belief that bike fits probably every one to three years, depending on your genetics and your tissue quality are fairly paramount to maintaining your ability to cycle

Hello and welcome to the Athletes Compass podcast where we navigate training, fitness and health for everyday athletes. Today we are honored to welcome Dr. Stacey Brixen to the podcast. Dr. Brixen who is in Madison, Wisconsin has spent 30 years as a physical therapist and athletic trainer. She is also a certified bike fitter and a USA cycling level one or the advanced coach. She has done six Ironmans and a lot of gravel racing.

Thank

So we're gonna have a

wide ranging discussion today. Welcome, Stacey, how are you?

I am well, thanks Paul. It's nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

So Stacey, let's start with bike fitting. Why are bike fits important, especially for people over 40? How much does bike fit play into aligning the physiology training and injury prevention?

It's probably a loaded question since I'm a bike fitter. So of course, I think it's the ultimate thing that everyone should have. ⁓ I would say bike fitting, obviously when we all start riding as kids, we don't have a bike fit, right? We're four, five, six, seven, and there's no discussion of bike fit. So when it becomes important is when the mileage and the watts start to really make a difference.

And so I don't know that that has an age. It's different for everybody. But for sure, once you hit the magic number of 40, it's my belief that bike fits probably every one to three years, depending on your genetics and your tissue quality are fairly paramount to maintaining your ability to cycle ⁓ with as little risk for injury and as much gain of pain-free riding as possible.

⁓ there are mechanical reasons for that. Just tissue quality wise, collagen is like everything with age doesn't improve. So it, tends to, I don't know, I tell my patients, it looks like spaghetti after it's been, ⁓ boiled in the colander, right? It gets all wormy. Like it doesn't look like it is in the bag when you take it off the shelf, nice and straight in the line. So.

That, if you can imagine, is what your collagen does over time, and there's less spaghetti as well. So how that translates on the bike is you usually have less ability than you started with to do simple things like hip hinge. And so when you don't hip hinge, then you usually cheat and get that from your spine. And when you get that motion from your spine, especially if you don't have a core that can hold it solid,

Yeah.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

things just keep escalating. So you end up, you can end up with all sorts of issues that simply came from your hamstrings being less flexible. And we don't notice that. So I'm, well, it doesn't matter how old I am. I'm old enough to have wrinkles and I don't know when that happened. You know, I didn't just wake up one day and go, well, geez, look at that. So that change in tissue.

Yeah.

is very much what happens to your hamstrings and other things. You don't notice it. You don't feel it. You can't measure it day by day. But one day you wake up with a wrinkly face and poor hamstring flexibility and you're like, wow, what happened? And so I really do think that bike fit ⁓ is important for anybody who is increasing their volume, increasing their watts to a point where it becomes ⁓

Yeah.

Ha

a big factor, the number of revolutions ⁓ becomes ⁓ important and the power can create mayhem or like I said, anybody over 40 or anybody with a major life change. So pregnancy and childbirth, an injury, major or minor to an unrelated part. You know, I'm always surprised that...

people are surprised when they have, let's say, rotator cuff injury and all of a sudden their bike fit needs to be changed. And they're like, well, I'm not pedaling with my arms, but your contact point is now painful and it's causing perturbations in the system. So I think everybody needs a bike fit.

Mm-hmm.

So Stacey, was, I was the first thing I had, the first question I had when you were talking about it was like, well, what happens at 40? And then I was like, yeah, you do change. And, ⁓ cause I'm, my stature is, you know, I've always been five 10, five 10, know, 160 pounds. Well, I'm not five 10 anymore. I'm, five nine. I couldn't believe it. I've some, where did it, where did an inch go? You know, what the.

Mm-hmm.

Wow, yeah.

Right? Exactly.

I'm sorry.

So we do change. And

of course, when we go into the physiology, we know that our cells turn over every, what is it, every six months, we're like a new person. We're the product of what we've eaten ultimately and the stresses and the adaptations that have occurred over those last six months. So we change, just to your point. yeah.

So we have a listener question from Matthias from our forum to kind of continue this idea with the bike fit. What are the benefits and downsides of going for a more aggressive bike fit with a lower handlebar position? Slam that stem. I'm currently considering removing one or two spacers from under my handlebar. What do you think about that?

mean, arrow is everything, right? Drag is not our friend, but to what cost? You just have to weigh the benefit and the risks. So, if there aren't any risks, if his mobility and flexibility and strength allows a more aggressive position, then it's OK to try that. But I wouldn't recommend that without a full musculoskeletal eval to make sure that you can

handle that and possibly also not all at once. So micro changes over time rather than one big change on one day usually fare better for people. ⁓ And engineering is not my area, so I'm getting a little bit out of my lane, but I would just think about what other ways can you increase your aerodynamics aside from slamming the stem and see if you can perhaps.

make a little bit more aerodynamic gains ⁓ without a huge change in the fit. So it's hard to know without seeing the person and seeing what their current setup is.

Yeah, and I think you also have to think about like, what is the person's goal, right? Like if he's doing an Iron Man, I would say instead of pushing for aerodynamics, you have to be comfortable enough to

be on aero as much as you can. You can see these amazing aerodynamic positions, but what do people end up doing is to sit up because they can't hold it after half of the Ironman bike ride because they can't hold it anymore or that they walk because they're just toast from being hunched up in...

Mm-hmm.

Excellent point.

in an iron position that was not comfortable.

Stacey, I have a question and it relates. Questions are always selfish for me, but it's like I'm one of those individuals, obviously I've got a little bit of a desk job sometimes with the work that I do. And I think the majority of our listeners are probably in that same sort of boat, right? How does that contribute with your background as PT and whatnot to, I don't know, just like this hunched over kind of position, right?

I go and I ride, I ride loads of K's and then I come and sit at my desk and I'm kind of in the same sort of position. How does that lifestyle attribute to changes in the body that you've seen over time?

It's probably second only to genetics is what we do for a living as far as repercussions. So I won't throw my husband under the bus, but he's an orthopedic surgeon and you can tell what he does for a living just by looking at him. Cause he spent 30 years with loops, know, hunched over and then he cycles. So the poor guy, you know, I talked to him about posture and he's like, do you know what I do for a living?

You

Yeah.

I think it is.

Exercises are great. You we can certainly give people exercises to reverse the postural habits that we have. fits up while I'm talking to him. ⁓ But if you're stretching your pecs and you're strengthening your scapular stabilizers three times a week for 20 minutes, that is not going to offset the habit itself. So a lot of times with people that I see, it's giving the right exercises, but more it's giving cues.

You

You

Hmm.

throughout the day to do what you just did, which is to sit up straight. ⁓ with all of the ergonomic technology we have, it really shouldn't be a big ask. It's more just breaking the habit more than it is a magic exercise. ⁓ Now, that said, when you're on a bike for as many hours as you are, there is not much work around, but back to bike fit.

I know.

you should be fit to your bike so that you aren't in a rounded shoulder position. And so certainly as you fatigue, you're going to fall into postures that are unbecoming, but at least having the posture from the start with a bike fit that allows you to the extent that your musculoskeletal system allows it to be what I call neutral. just gravity is working evenly throughout. It's not

pulling more in one place than another because you're slouched or rounded is really the essence. So bike fit, back to the first, where we started.

Okay, is it even possible to be comfortable on the bike when you're riding long hours? I hear this question all the time. Are you even comfortable? Are you not sore? I'm like, yeah, like my son, 14 year old, asked, mom, how can you bike so long? Doesn't it hurt? I'm like, hell yeah, it does. ⁓ I don't, is it even possible to be comfortable?

Yeah.

Yeah.

well, yes and no. I think that, so the longest race, single day race I've done is 312 K and there's no part of that that was uncomfortable at the start. There was every part that was uncomfortable towards the end. So the, body is a machine and it has limits. So if you push it long enough, of course, at some point it's going to.

Yeah.

bark back at you. But if you start uncomfortable, that's where bike fit should that that it should be comfortable to start. And I have lots of people that come in and they say, well, I just thought it was supposed to be uncomfortable. And I think that is unfortunate. ⁓ If you don't have a saddle that you're comfortable in from the start, nothing is going to feel good in short order.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

aside from the bike fit, just the saddle itself and its interface with you because you're constantly going to be moving around. So I always tell people, if you don't have a comfortable saddle, don't bother with the bike fit beyond that because it's a moot point. And saddle should be comfortable. Absolutely. There is no reason to ride a saddle that doesn't love your geometry and you love the saddle geometries back. So I don't know if that answers your question. I mean,

Yeah.

I was just going to say like, if you're training for Ironman, like Marjaana often does, you do, you you got to put in the K's and you, you know, you don't want to go on race day without preparing for, for five, six hours on the bike. Right. Like, so to, build up to that, you probably need to go through some level of discomfort, you know, as you progress towards three, four or five hours.

That's a unique position to hold for that length of time, but does get better with training as well, I've found. And to your point, of course, be comfortable to start.

And it's just like anything. I I grew up on a farm and I haven't farmed for a long time, but last weekend my mom needed some help. And so I went back and I'm doing what you do. And my gosh, I could hardly function the next day. And she's 20 years older than I am and still functions fine. But I got away from it. So I can't expect to come back to it and put in a full day and not be really uncomfortable. And cycling is no different to Paul's point. you're...

Yeah

Hahaha!

going to be expected in an Ironman to be on a bike for, you know, four to six hours. You can't just, and everyone knows this is listening, this is silly, but you can't just show up and expect after doing two that four to six is going to be comfortable. So you have to build into it. But I think everyone understands that well.

Yeah. I was also going to mention to you, was having to think about your posture thing and I'm blessed to live in the hills and the mountains and I love my hill rides. Just because I can get out of the saddle kind of repeatedly on every little switchback. There's a little bit of a steep part and I look forward to them because it's like, it just feels so good, right? I'm not running anymore. I ran probably too much. wore out the tires in my hips and they're going to need some

some love from the orthopedic surgeons in the future, but it's so nice to just be able to kind of stand in those things. So that mix of sitting and standing, I love so much more.

Yeah, that's interesting. Wisconsin had a ride across Wisconsin and it's changed, but long ago you could ride the whole state, know, 200 and some miles. And I swear to gosh, they picked every non-hilly road imaginable. And people are like, well, this is great. We have no hills. And I thought, this is awful. We have no hills because like you said, we rely on undulating terrain to get out of our saddle. Not that you can't on a flat, but you're more inclined to just.

you know, stay, stay low and go. Um, yeah, I love Hills and I love, uh, just undulating terrain for that, for that reason. It's more comfortable, not less comfortable.

Marjaana, do love hills? You showed me a nice photo there yesterday.

I love the mountains. I don't get too many of those in Texas, so I'm embracing it while I can.

Hahaha!

Ha ha.

So Stacey, we had another listener question from Kimber and I think these two questions are pretty similar. ⁓ Can you recommend one to two easy wins to get people started and then get them converted to decide to go to a fitter? And then for those who can't afford a fit right now, what are two things that people can do as a bridge until they can get a real fit?

So let me understand. There's two parts to the question. The first was, is it OK to just have people ride and then convince them of a fit rather than mandating a fit at the beginning? Is that kind of what you were asking?

Yeah,

it sounds that way. And it sounds like, you know, what are some easy wins that somebody say, Hey, do this. And this is going to convince you to get a fit in the future.

I see. ⁓ To be clear, I don't necessarily recommend anyone have a bike fit from the start if they're not familiar with cycling. In part, you don't know what it's supposed to feel like. So for example, I've been biking for 30 years, but just five years ago started mountain biking. I had no idea what that was supposed to feel like. So it took me a whole season before I had a bike fit because I didn't even know what felt wrong and what felt right.

Mmm.

I think to her point, yes, it's absolutely fine. Just a word of caution though, make sure that if you're buying a bike, even if you don't have a fit, that at least someone has eyes on you to make sure the size is right. Because obviously later, it's going to be an expensive oops, if you have a fit and you realize that the size was wrong. So I would just say that. A few easy wins. I would just have, if a person's not sure what a bike fit's going to do,

If they're clipped in, can have them fuss with their cleats. Really quickly, they're going to see that changing cleat position very rapidly translates to things feeling very different up the chain at the knees and the hips. You can have them pretend that their bars are really narrow and then you can have them, you know, just to emphasize the importance of bar width, you can have them ride in the hoods and ride in the drop.

and get a sense of, if these were in different orientations or different lengths or different, ⁓ how would that feel on my shoulders? I don't know how else you could have them raise their seat a little bit higher than they think is normal. They could lower their seat a little bit lower than they think is comfortable and very easily get a sense of what that does to hip and knee range of motion, know, excursion power development. So I think just.

Fiddling with those factors in those contact points could help them become more aware of what those contact points and perfect position might offer them. ⁓

I was going to say the

same sort of thing there, Stacey. So you guys might have heard of Steve Neal. He's a bit of a famous cycling coach and he just lives down the road for me. Came over with his VO2Max machine, rode a VO2Max in the lab here. And then, know, coach's eye, he was like, I think, know, Paul, you're, you want to, I guess I wasn't extending enough and whatnot. ⁓

And he's like, you might just want to try experimenting to Stacey's point of just increasing that seat height by a millimeter and then another millimeter kind of thing. And ⁓ so I did that over a couple different rides and it definitely felt a lot better. And yeah, I wasn't, I don't know, as cramped up as I was initially. So, but again, to Stacey's point, it's pretty tough to, ⁓ you sort of need that experienced eye, I think.

⁓ to help you out from the beginning, I would think.

Yeah. And then Paul, the second part of her question was, think, the expense and are there workarounds? Yeah, bike fits are expensive if they're done correctly. You know, a good bike fit takes us three hours and it's on the order of $300. And that's not a trivial amount of money for anyone. I mean, there are plenty of...

parameters out there that are pretty easy to figure out on your own. So if you have a simple camera and tripod and you can film yourself, you know, on a trainer, you can pretty easily look at the hip and knee and foot angles and see if you're in the ballpark. I would say that's one fairly, certainly doesn't cost anything. I don't know how effective it is. There are plenty of programs.

that are free apps that you can use that measure those angles for you and ⁓ resources to tell you where they should be. I don't love my answer, but I think that's the best I can come up with.

Mm-mm.

No, I mean, we're obviously a pretty heavy tech company. is there anything around the bike fit biomechanical analysis area that you're seeing, Stacey, that maybe has a promise for the future?

Yeah, but I'm not well versed at the names if you're asking for specific apps just because I don't know if this is good or bad, but I am so old school. We don't use 3D cameras and I've fiddled with a lot of the apps and honestly, unless you're in a research setting where you have a profound amount of money to have high speed cameras. ⁓

That's okay.

I don't find them that valuable. The only value I really see in them is showing the video back to the client so that they're able to see what you're seeing and you're able to show them what you did by changing what you changed. But they're not research grade. And depending on where you put the markers, I mean, you're off by more degrees than what you're measuring, right? If they're really so.

Great.

That's why I think I'm struggling with this answer a bit.

That's okay.

Yeah. Anything else on bike fit that we should, that we should talk about? I mean, obviously we could talk a whole episode just on bike fit, but anything else that you want to add to that, Stacey?

I think the only thing I would add is if your bike fits perfect and you haven't aged a day and you're starting to experience a pain that you're not able to account for. So you didn't change training load, you didn't change intensity, you didn't go out and do something unusual. It's worth maybe not bike fit, but just having your bike run through a mechanical check. Because so many times I see in patients, they come in and they say, gosh, knee pain out of nowhere.

And you look in there, nose of their saddle is just dumped forward, you know, two to four degrees. so they're pushing back to stay out of that nose down. they're ending up with a patellar tendonitis or patellar tendinopathy. That's a really common one. Or they slowly just start to have nagging of knee pain and you look in their cleats are worn. a lot of times the bike changed and caused something to. Acre pain on you and that's

another reason, I think, to just pay attention to both bike fit and then just bike mechanics to make sure that it didn't, something didn't go awry.

Stacey, have a question that you're no doubt somewhat of an expert on and it relates to one touch point, a key touch point and that's the saddle. Like how does saddle selection, what does saddle selection strategy look like from your expert standpoint that you could recommend for us, right? Like the lay person, where do they start?

my god.

It is. Yeah.

I think you find either a bike shop or a bike fitter that has the basic shapes. so to back up, saddles are by far the hardest thing and there's all sorts of pressure mapping and I don't have any experience with those. I think they're very promising. ⁓ But but at the nuts and bolts of the issue, you have a pelvic geometry.

here comes the visual.

Alright ⁓

this is

my husband's and this is back from his med school days. This is a real one. These are lacking in today's world, but you know, pelvic geometry, basically you've got your, you know, your sits bones, which you're not riding on unless you're a viral Gulch and, and, ⁓ Wizard of Oz, you're really trying to ride these rails, right? You want every contact point, every,

Yeah, yeah.

available contact point from those rails to be on the firm part of the saddle. And if that doesn't happen, bad things are going to happen, right? So the name of the game is to figure out your pelvic width, meaning the distance between the rails, the width of the rails, and how fast those rails come to a point and find a saddle that fits that exactly. So width is the first thing. How fast the cutout

goes from wide to narrow is the second thing. Where it's puffy and where it's not puffy, right? So if you're sitting on a part of the saddle that everyone thinks is, not everyone, that most people think is good, that's just pushing up on the soft tissue and causing neurovascular problems. So you want your rails on a hard part of the saddle. And the reason that a lot of the mapping is difficult and saddle fit is difficult is as you fatigue, your posture changes.

And as your posture changes, where you are on those rails and where those rails are on the saddle changes. So it's not just finding a saddle that feels good the first two hours. It's a saddle that is you change your posture with fatigue feels good four to six hours. So you need to find a saddle shop that has all the shapes, right? And the widths. So wide to narrow and then concave convex, flat, snub nose, cutouts, no cutouts. Those are sort of the basics.

and you circle through them and you circle through them. And if right away it feels awful, that shape and that width is out. If right away it feels like, that's out. If right away it feels like, yes, that's maybe in. And so it's rare that I can figure out if the saddle is right or wrong in a three hour fit. It's often, yep, the saddle feels great now.

You take it home, you ride it, you bring it back. so having test saddles in the various widths and shapes is great. Most bike shops, that just doesn't work well for them, right? They're retail, so they don't really want you to bring back a nice but slightly used saddle and keep doing that. finding a, like I worked with Colin O'Brien, who was one of the most renowned fitters in the world.

And at his shop, Chrono Metro, we've just got a whole saddle library. And it's just, that's, that's how it is. Right. You come in, you check out a book from the library, you take it home, you bring it back. And that's how this goes. So if, anyone's looking for a simple solution, I sure don't have it. And we're working with people who know what a good saddle fit should feel like when you're first learning. How do you tell people like, it's really awkward, especially if it's a man and a woman or a

Mm-hmm.

woman in a man to like be like, here's your rails. This is what you should feel, you know, like, let me just show you. So that's why models are great. ⁓ but I, I, it is the hardest, hardest part of bike fit. I think probably the most essential starting point. So find a shop, preferably a bike fit shop that has test saddles and test them out. And then once you think you have one that, ⁓ is not objectionable.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah

go from there.

You mentioned the differences between men and female, like women have a little bit wider pelvis. ⁓ There are quite a bit of female specific saddles, but do you see any other differences ⁓ between men and females?

Thank you.

That's a great question. Yeah, that's saddles. It's a little saddles are a little bit like saying this is a female bike. It just mostly says, you know, in general on a belt shape curve, you're a different size and shape. So I never steer men away from women's saddles and I never steer women directly towards women's saddles. just, they're, they're, they're a shape and they're a size that I throw into the, to the mix. Other than pelvic geometry, the biggest thing I think is

Mm-hmm.

ligamentous laxity, particularly hormonally with your cycle, know, relaxin'. All those lovely hormones that allow us to have an accommodating place for a baby are different than the hormones men have. And so I do think that there's a little bit of cyclical stuff that goes on. I don't think that warrants a different saddle every.

so often, it's just one consideration that isn't present in men. Yeah, and boy, not just our pelvic structure, but our plumbing is very different. And so there's just a whole different set of things I hear from males and females. And because I'm female, I think I understand that female anatomy better. That's one really nice thing working with Colin is we have a his and a hers. ⁓

Hmm.

And that's really helpful for the patients or the patients, if I see it for PT clients, if I see them for bike fit, just to talk to somebody about, right, this is what's, this is the problem. This is where I'm experiencing pressure or pain. And it's just nice to talk to somebody that has your same anatomy to help you work through that. So yeah, the plumbing is just different. ⁓ I would say I have a lot more males that ride like the Cobb saddle. I call it the snub nose. ⁓

Yeah.

Whether that's plumbing or not, I'm not sure, but that's a big difference that I see. And probably a lot more females in my experience that ride with a cutout than males.

Mm-hmm.

Stacey, I want to just take a left turn for just a moment and talk about your work with Velocity and draft responsibly. Community is an important part of what you do and what you try to build. ⁓ Can you talk to us about we're trying to get things going with ⁓ Velocity and how has that evolved for you?

I have nothing but good things to say about velocity. So you're right. Our, cycling group coaching aside is, called Bricos drafters and we have 189 cyclists at this point that we've built over 14 years and it's more of a family than it is a ⁓ race team or anything else. so cycling together is really important to us. And it's a challenge, right? And I've been at this long enough.

to remember way back in the days when cycling together meant Johnny G spinners. Remember those? They're basically the old Monarch bicycle that that's what we would use to train. And then things got more sophisticated and CompuTrainer came around and that was fantastic. We could all be in a room with cords running everywhere because CompuTrainer were hardwired. ⁓ But it allowed us to train in the same room and with power, which was great. And then the next evolution was Smart Trainers.

I do.

at home that didn't have wires and they, and Zwift and TrainerRoad and all the other platforms. And, and that became great. And a lot of people lobbed onto that. It wasn't so great for my group that that's really, it's not isolating your, your biking with people you don't know in a group, but for our purposes, it was very isolating. And so Velocity has allowed us to come together in a room again on our bikes and train in a meaningful way.

and what I mean by that is two things. One, I can see in real time what everyone is doing. So when I'm teaching a class, they're physically in front of me and they're also at home. So now I lose the problem of only having 13 bikes in our, or 13 trainers in our studio. So I've got 13 people in front of me and I've got as many as want to sign up for the class at home. And I can see in real time on my computer screen, just like I can see you now.

you

their faces and their boxes and it's color coded. know, like green is go. Green is they're doing what I'm asking. And then if it's too hot, I think it's red. And if it's too cold, it's blue or something like that. And so I don't have to be with my old eyes looking at numbers. Like what's their FTP number? What's their heart rate? It just lights it up on a color coded scheme. So I can quickly assess if people are on target or off target.

Mm-hmm.

you

and the people can see each other. Right? So it's, we're, I've got 13 in front of me and I've got however many at home and we're all biking as a group. I love that. Um, absolutely love that. It is not intimidating for people who don't use power. So I have many athletes that don't use power and they're still a part of it because those graphs come up in heart rate targets and they come up in RPE targets.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

which makes it also very easy for me. Cause when I'm trying to give a meaningful explanation for a workout, I don't have to speak in the different languages. Well, for you, it's heart rate here. For you, it's power here. For you, it's RPE here. It's all one in the same. under the program understands all of those metrics and can just show it in color.

If I can take it from there. ⁓ shoes, we have shoes insoles We're kind of getting this nice picture of exactly what point contact points and

If I can take it from there. ⁓ shoes, we have shoes in Sols. We're kind of getting this nice picture of exactly what point, contact points and...

if I can take it from, from there. ⁓ So shoes, have shoes, insoles. We're kind of getting this nice picture of exactly what point contact points and

what a good bike feeder can help you out with. We haven't talked about leg length differences. Like a lot of people have different length of

what a good bike feeder can help you out with. We haven't talked about leg length differences. Like a lot of people have different length of

what a good bike feeder can help you out with. We haven't talked about leg length differences. Like a lot of people have different length of

their legs. How do you deal with that? Oh boy. So leg length discrepancy is tricky. You only know if you have a leg length discrepancy if you've had a full length radiograph.

their legs. How do you deal with that? Oh boy. So leg length discrepancy is tricky. You only know if you have a leg length discrepancy if you've had a full length radiograph.

their legs, how do you deal with that?

boy. leg ⁓ length discrepancy is tricky. You only know if you have a leg length discrepancy if you've had a full length radiograph.

So unless you've had an x-ray, you don't know where it's coming from or if it's true or if it's pseudo leg length discrepancy, which can often and most frequently does happen when you have just a torsion of the pelvis. So quick and dirty,

So unless you've had an x-ray, you don't know where it's coming from or if it's true or if it's pseudo leg length discrepancy, which can often and most frequently does happen when you have just a torsion of the pelvis. So quick and dirty,

Mm-hmm.

So unless you've had an x-ray, you don't know where it's coming from or if it's true or if it's pseudo leg length discrepancy, which can often and most frequently does happen when you have just a torsion of the pelvis. So quick and dirty.

you know, I sort of have a person supine and you pull on their hips and you do your little magic and you see if their maleoli line up, but if they don't, you flex them to 90 and you have them bridge and you do it again and

you know, I sort of have a person supine and you pull on their hips and you do your little magic and you see if their maleoli line up, but if they don't, you flex them to 90 and you have them bridge and you do it again and

you know, I sort of have a person supine and you pull on their hips and you do your little magic and you see if they're maleoli line up, but if they don't, you flex them to 90 and you have them bridge and you do it again. And

usually that changes things a little bit. And if it looks like a true leg length discrepancy, which I can only measure not very accurately with a tape measure from, know, like ASIS to your points.

Usually that changes things a little bit. And if it looks like a true leg length discrepancy, which I can only measure not very accurately with a tape measure from like ASIS to your points.

Usually that changes things a little bit. And if it looks like a true leg length discrepancy, which I can only measure not very accurately with a tape measure from like ASIS to your points.

If they have it documented or if I really think it's a leg length discrepancy, maybe I'll shim it. Not quite to the full LLD, but to part of that. Most times I handle it with exercise, with trying to decrease whatever the rotational or torsion is that's creating it. So I'm very reluctant to just see a discrepancy and shim it, especially if they're not having any functional

If they have it documented or if I really think it's a leg length discrepancy, maybe I'll shim it. Not quite to the full LLD, but to part of that. Most times I handle it with exercise, with trying to decrease whatever the rotational or torsion is that's creating it. So I'm very reluctant to just see a discrepancy and shim it, especially if they're not having any functional

If they have it documented or if I really think it's a leg length discrepancy, maybe I'll shim it. Not quite to the full LLD, but to part of that. Most times I handle it with exercise, with trying to decrease whatever the rotational or torsion is that's creating it. So I'm very reluctant to just see a discrepancy and shim it, especially if they're not having any functional

sequela of that. you know, the big things that you see in riders that make me nervous, you know, the rocking of the pelvis, that is rarely due to a leg length discrepancy. That's usually due to either they hate their saddle, they don't know how to engage their core, their crank length is way off, their saddle height is way off. I don't know in 30 years that I've treated a leg like discrepancy as such.

sequela of that. So, you know, the big things that you see in riders that make me nervous, you know, the rocking of the pelvis, that is rarely due to a leg length discrepancy. That's usually due to either they hate their saddle, they don't know how to engage their core, their crank length is way off, their saddle height is way off. I don't know in 30 years that I've treated a leg like discrepancy as such.

sequela of that. you know, the big things that you see in riders that make me nervous, you know, the rocking of the pelvis, that is rarely due to a leg length discrepancy. That's usually due to either they hate their saddle, they don't know how to engage their core, their crank length is way off, their saddle height is way off. I don't know in 30 years that I've treated a leg like discrepancy as such.

So I'm careful with that one. Yeah. And that's a really good point because having a bike fitter who's also physio can, you know, can see the real cause and not just like, you know, label it as like length discrepancy. Yeah. I mean, if you let's say you have a pseudo short right leg and you think, well, I'm just going to throw a shim in there. Well, if it's not truly a leg like discrepancy, which you just did is give that

So I'm careful with that one.

So I'm careful with that one. Yeah. And that's a really good point because having a bike fitter who's also physio can, you know, can see the real cause and not just like, you know, label it as like length discrepancy. Yeah. I mean, if you let's say you have a pseudo short right leg and you think, well, I'm just going to throw a shim in there. Well, if it's not truly a leg like discrepancy, which you just did is give that

Yeah, and that's a really good point because having a bike fitter who is also a physio can see the real cause and not just label it as length discrepancy.

Yeah, I mean, if you let's say you have a pseudo short right leg and you think, well, I'm just going to throw a shim in there. Well, if it's not truly a leg like discrepancy, which you just did is give that

part of the body permission to get shorter. You're just like, I just brought the ground to you and it goes super because I'm going to take it up another notch. Right. So you can feed the fuel for a really bad fire.

part of the body permission to get shorter. Right? You're just like, I just brought the ground to you and it goes super, cause I'm going to take it up another notch. Right? So you can feed the fuel for a really bad fire.

part of the body permission to get shorter. Right? You're just like, I just brought the ground to you and it goes super, cause I'm going to take it up another notch. Right? So you can feed the fuel for a really bad fire.

If you just start shimming things that you're not clear why you're shimming them. Now I may shim something that I know on purpose shouldn't be shim to give that tissue rest knowing full well, I'm going to unshimm it.

If you just start shimming things that you're not clear why you're shimming them. Now I may shim something that I know on purpose shouldn't be shim to give that tissue rest knowing full well, I'm going to unshimm it.

if you just start shimming things that you're not clear why you're shimming them. Now, I may shim something that I know on purpose shouldn't be shimmed to give that tissue rest knowing full well I'm gonna unshim it.

Mmm.

So if I'm bringing the ground up to something because it's shortened and it's angry, I might allow that body to stay shortened to quiet it down so that off the bike I can address

So if I'm bringing the ground up to something because it's shortened and it's angry, I might allow that body to stay shortened to quiet it down so that off the bike, I can address

So if I'm bringing the ground up to something because it's shortened and it's angry, I might allow that body to stay shortened to quiet it down so that off the bike, I can address

what's making it angry and lengthen it. And as that link comes back, then I take out the shim. So it's, I'm not saying that I don't shim something that shouldn't, that, that.

what's making it angry and lengthen it. And as that link comes back, then I take out the shim. So it's, I'm not saying that I don't shim something that shouldn't, that, that.

what's making it angry and lengthen it. And as that link comes back, then I take out the shim. So it's, I'm not saying that I don't shim something that shouldn't, that,

I'm very careful to shim for a reason, not just to whack a mole, try to fix something that's moving and not really understanding why it's moving in that way.

I'm very careful to shim for a reason, not just to, you know, whack a mole, try to fix something that's moving and not really understanding why it's moving in that way.

I'm very careful to shim for a reason, not just to whack a mole, try to fix something that's moving and not really understanding why it's moving in that way.

⁓ And maybe in the future, Stacey, you will come and host the session with me. would love to. yes, please. ⁓ I would love to. I would love to. Thank you.

⁓ And maybe in the future, Stacey, you will come and host the session with me. would love to. yes, please. ⁓ I would love to. I would love to. Thank you.

Yeah.

Yes.

Maybe in the future, Stacey, you will come and host the session with me. I would love to go host with you.

yes, please.

I would love to.

I would love to. Thank you.

Well, Stacey, thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate your wisdom on bike fits and community. Thank you for stopping in today.

Well, Stacey, thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate your wisdom on bike fits and community. Thank you for stopping in today.

Well, Stacey, thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate your wisdom on bike fits and community. Thank you for stopping in today.

Thank you for having me. It's lovely to meet you all. Paul and Marjaana and Paul, course, I know you from before, so it's so nice to see you. Thank you, Stacey. Awesome conversation. Learn to heap. Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. It's lovely to meet you all. Paula Marjaana and Paul, course, I know you from before, so it's so nice to see you. Thank you, Stacey. Awesome conversation. Learn to heap. Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. It's lovely to meet you all. Paula Marjaana and Paul, course, I know you from before, so still nice to see you.

Thank you, Stacey. Awesome conversation. Learn to heap. Thank you so much.

All right. Take care all. Thanks for listening today to the Athletes Compass podcast. Take a moment now. Subscribe, share, and let's keep navigating this endurance adventure together. Improve your training with the science-based

All right. Take care all. Thanks for listening today to the Athletes Compass podcast. Take a moment now. Subscribe, share, and let's keep navigating this endurance adventure together. Improve your training with the science-based

All right, take care all.

Thanks for watching. Bye.

Thanks for listening today to the Athletes Compass podcast. Take a moment now, subscribe, share, and let's keep navigating this endurance adventure together. Improve your training with the science-based

training platform, Athletica, and join the conversation at the Athletica Forum. For Dr. Stacey Bricks and Marjaana Rakai and Dr. Paul Laursen I'm Paul Warloski and this has been the Athletes Compass podcast. Thank you for listening.

Training Platform Athletica and join the conversation at the Athletica Forum. For Dr. Stacey Bricks and Marjaana Rakai and Dr. Paul Laursen, I'm Paul Warloski and this has been the Athletes Compass Podcast. Thank you for listening.

Training Platform Athletica and join the conversation at the Athletica Forum. For Dr. Stacey Bricks and Marjaana Rakai and Dr. Paul Laursen, I'm Paul Warloski and this has been the Athletes Compass Podcast. Thank you for listening.